Maybe I’m in too much of a good mood today, maybe I’m a bit sick or twisted. But I don’t find anything more amusing that a man trying to defend himself. And it’s always the same unimaginative bullshit, <quote>Men may usually be like that, but I’m not, honest!</quote>
I wrote a heavily ranty blog entry in my LiveJournal yesterday, mostly because I was tired and in a terifically bad mood. Also because for shits and giggles I wanted to see the response that I got. Mostly though, because I was feeling a bit ‘at the end of my tether’ with a couple of things and I wanted to make them clear to people reading my LiveJournal. Over the past couple of years I’ve discovered that despite dearly loving a good argument discussion, most people don’t know how to argue effectively and safely, especially men. It’s the typical knee jerk offensive reaction of trying to put the blame away from themselves for being inherently flawed. So I typed a post that would air the dirtiest of my dirty rad fem view, and gauge the reaction. It also has the nice bonus of getting rid of any third wavers that I’m too hardcore, and men who cannot cope with the reality of their failings.
LiveJournal is blocked on the library computer (I’m waiting for my home PC to be fixed – bah), so I decided to type what I’ve got to say in response to a mans comment (the only man that had the guts to reply and risk my wrath thus far). Incidentally, I’m fairly certain that the main problem said man had with my journal entry is that I listed a list of a handful of men who I don’t find to be complete WANKERS, and he wasn’t on said list, for VERY GOOD REASONS. Primarily because he’s screwed over pretty much every woman in my life by having sex with them and never calling them again. With every intention of sounding big headed and egotistical, I’m convinced part of the reason for his annoyance is the fact that it has become plainly obvious his dumbstick will not be coming anywhere near close to my sacred space 😛 Anyway, I’m going to write here what I think in response to his comment (I’m hoping to tear him off a piece) and then post it to LJ when I get to use a proper computer, probably at Anji’s house. For reference, here is my original post, minus some ranting about an ex girlfriend of mine who I’m pretty angry at.
Having my first new really rewarding platonic friendship for several years with ghostlove has actually really made me realise what I’m missing out on. Having someone who I know I can completely be myself around, with my rabid rad fem views and hairyness and man hatingness and emo and drama, who still makes me feel happy and loved in a really good way has made me lots less willing to accept poorer substitutes.
I’m no longer worried about appearing nice and losing friends because I’m not tolerant and gentle all the time. Damn it, I need friends who I can say ‘oh shut up you moany bitch’ to and not worry I’ll make them cry. I need friends who I can sulk around and be intolerant because of my mood swings.
I just don’t ever see a friendship with prolificdiarist working out. I’m done. I’ve put so much effort into it and just NO MATTER WHAT I DO, it always comes back to bite me on the arse.
To clarify something: I’m a bitch. I’m moody and argumentative and prissy and like making a pain out of myself. I’m also loving, generous, sensual and giving. The good come with the bad. Some days you might be in for a METRIC FUCKTON of the bad, and other times you’ll get many days of the good Jenny, you never know because a: I have an unpredictable personality disorder and mental illness and b: it depends what I feel like. I try to be happy and confident and sociable and loving and giving when I can, but if I need to be a bitch, I need to be a bitch. If you want to be my friend, I need to know that if I’m having a bad day, I can be myself around you. I will not accept friends I can only see when I’m in a good mood who never see the other side of me, I wouldn’t even call that a friendship. If I ultimately end up with less friends because of this, so be it. I’d actually rather be alone that spend the rest of my life shaping myself to fit other people. People either love/like me for who I am, or they fuck off. Simple as that.
With regards to the man hating thing: my philosophy is simple. I hate men. As a group, I think they’re scummy, repellent, contemptible people. I have found certain men that have proven themselves worthy of my love. Yes I say worthy in a big headed way because I am an awesome person and most men aren’t worthy of having me in their lives. The men that have proven themselves to separate from the general throng of Scum are the men who I can talk to, the ones who aren’t misogynistic chauvinistic twats, the ones who respect me as a person, the ones who ACCEPT ME AS I AM. There are handful of these at best. In most other respects, I think men are vile. I feel disrespected, hated, objectified and violated by pretty much most of the men in my life. I’ve had my good humour, my love, my life, my heart SHAT ON BY MEN. Is it any wonder I don’t trust them? It’s been coming for a long time BITCHES. I can name off the top of my head the men that I don’t find vile:
Every other man I know personally has made me feel horrified or upset or disgusted or hurt at some point in my life, including my dad and my brother who I should be able to trust. But genetics doesn’t put you apart from the inherent fail that is men.
If I have any other men on my f-list who I haven’t listed, don’t feel offended, I wouldn’t have you on here if I thought you were terrible.
I hate men because they are everything about human nature that I despise. If you can’t deal with that, (I’m not saying you have to agree, I’m saying you have to DEAL) then I think my journal isn’t the best place for you and I’d like you to stop reading it.
I hate men. It’s not up for discussion, it’s the way it is and it’s not going to change. End Of.
*Sexism/racism = it is my personal belief that an opressed class hating the opressing class does not constitute bigotry. In my mind, it’s perfectly reasonable for people of other races/ethnicities to hate white, I don’t think it’s racism. Nor do I think it’s sexist to hate men.
You can call me bigoted. You can call me a sexist whore. You can say I’m being misandrist. It’s the way I FEEL. I don’t want it to change because I see no reason, no reedeeming value of men, nothing that will be added to my life in any way if I am chummy with men. I am perfectly content in the company of my sisters and that is how it will stay.
Bear in mind, two of the men on the list aren’t bio males and therefore act qualitatively different in my mind, they’ve EXPERIENCED the fuckton of misogynistic wank we have to deal with on a daily basis. The top three men on the list are Anji’s very close friend, Anji’s boyfriend, and my current sweetie. Until recently, I was strongly inclined to believe that finding men like these men would be a purely impossible and time wasted task. Anji, I have you to thank for that.
His amusing reply, which had me giggling very girly chipmunk like laughs in the library, was as follows. It was the defensive, the oh so predictable condescending tone, it just reminded me of the bad ol’ days when I didn’t stick up for myself, and made me oh so happy that I am not like that any more.
Sorry to break it to you, but men don’t oppress women on a large scale, and haven’t done effectively in this country since before you were born. I’d say that one fact blows your reasoning quite heftily out of the water.
Now, quite frankly, I’ve got no problem with you disliking any subdivision of society you choose. Hell, I’ve got a whole boatload of irrational dislikes myself. That being said, I’ve got the sense to try and keep mine to myself, and I’m a decent enough person to try and avoid letting my prejudices influence my interactions with people.
Trust me: This is the biting-my-tongue version of things. I don’t take kindly to people rubbishing my entire sex based on interaction with less than a fraction of a tenth of one percent of it, but I suppose it’s easier to pretend we’re all scum than admitting that you just seem to have known a lot of bastards.
As a parting thought: It’s been statistically inferred that spousal abuse against men by women is far more prevalent than the other way around. But not only is it far less reported, but women are far more likely to use improvised weapons, such as irons or frying pans.
Can a man ever have an effective argument without first having to rubbish the position of the person he is arguing with? In my conversations with Anji, I often end up thinking that she’s making a very good point and understanding her theories, even if I don’t understand myself. Never once has she felt the need to slap me down to make her point stand out by default. It’s a deplorable tactic. In my conversations with feminists it has NEVER EVER been used. In my conversations with women in general, it’s rarely been used. Are women wired differently? I often think that women love to learn and educate themselves, men seem determined to obliterate everything that isn’t their own narrow minded phallocentric viewpoint.
For the sake oif ease, I am going to type the response like I am talking to him. I am cackling evily and cracking my knuckles in a very unladylike way as I compose this response in my head. When you see strikes, you are likely seeing my thought process and my attempt to resist the temptation to lower myself to his level and resort to petty name calling/talking down. But then he is a man (and an amazingly PENIS FOCUSED ONE at that), so a certain degree of intellectual dumbing down may have to take place. *grins* It’s also worth mentioning that as I type this, my Inbox has slowly been filling with replies to his comment and his responses to them, which slightly resemble a small animal backed into a corner by a horde of stampeding lions. Ho ho ho.
Don’t be sorry assface honey loser , it’s a typical knee jerk response, one I’ve heard/seen many times before, played out in all sorts of contexts, usually with very similar wording to your own. Please excuse me if I’m not really feeling the sorry vibes wafting out of your defensive lamentable comment.
You may consider it good sense to keep your opinions to yourself, I consider it good sense to seek a community of people who I can share my opinions with and further my thought processes. I also don’t feel that I’ve become an indecent person for wanting to write my bottom line behaviour out and express a need to have friends that will cope with said behaviour. It’s rather amusing that you think it would be possible for me to avoid my interactions being coloured by my prejudice. I very much doubt it is possible, and even if it was, I wouldn’t want it to. I’ve got a good enough network of female friends and lovers without having to worry about wasting energy on trying to find the needle in the haystack (a good man under all the bastards). Another point I would also like to make is that my definition of ‘decent’ is obviously clearly different to yours. I feel that you are sticking to a definition defined by patriachy, by men, by Judo-Christian ideals. As a women, I shouldn’t (and don’t) feel a need to make myself appear decent in the eyes of men. I suspect your discomfort is centred around the fact that you are uncomfortable with women that you cannot objectify, and what I know of your personal life supports this theory.
You needn’t hold yourself back from your full version, there is no need to bite your tongue with me. You may be desperately clinging on to the ideal that you are a ‘nice’ man and ‘different’ from all these other poor men that I’ve criticised in my post, but I don’t for one second believe you, so it’s an act really lost on me. You may also be surrounded by weak willed, gentle women who run away at the first sign of conflict, but I stand my ground, so bombard me how you will and expect to get the same in return.
I find your reply deeply amusing because it is so very typical of the response I would expect from a man, the usual defensiveness and disquiet about a woman daring to say what other women generally are afraid to say.
I also personally don’t give a fuck what you ‘take kindly’ to at all. I didn’t right the post specifically to you, although I expected a reply along these lines from you, because you’re probably the man on my friends list I have the least respect for. You’re right in a sense, I have met mostly bastards. However, I don’t feel it an unreasonable conclusion from my interactions with men, my mothers interactions with men, my sisters interactions with men, my female friends interactions with men and what I have heard of all of those things, to conclude that men are bastards. I have no doubt that some men are an exception to this blanket rule (although I expect the number is very small), mostly because I have men in my life. Yes, my hatred for men will colour my reactions with them. Yes men will have to work bloody hard to prove to me that they are worth being in my life. This may mean I end up with next to no men in my life, which I think proves my point that men are not worth any more than 1p. Yes, it’s arrogant, but I know I am a fucking awesome person and yes I think men should have to work fucking hard to be in my life. I think arrogance seems to be one of the few traits we have in common.
This comment also speaks volumes of your need to separate yourself from the throngs of bastard men. When you’d probably do a lot better if you accepted the truth and worked on your failings, instead of desperately trying to pretend otherwise. I have a feeling that your poor feelings are hurt because you aren’t on my list, and you weren’t on the list for very good reasons. I suspect you’ll reply to that with a sarcastic ‘boo hoo/poor me’ comment, but I very much doubt that I’m far from the truth. I’m sorry you feel misaligned by the fact that I conclude you’re a bastard because you’re male. If it helps at all, I conclude that you’re a bastard because I’ve met you and spoken to women that you have engaged with, none of which discouraged me from thinking that you’re a bastard.
Your parting point is also CRAP, being that in no way did I ever pretend that female on male abuse doesn’t exist. But it’s existence doesn’t make it anywhere near as commonplace as male on female abuse, nor does it state the reasons why. I believe if you care to research, you’ll find that a large majority of women who do abuse their male partners do it because of abuse they have received themselves in the past. I also believe that women are far more inclined to improvise with household implements as far more men carry weapons and knives than women, and therefore women need to defend themselves with whatever is handy to defend themselves with. Women are passionate people, and women are often exploited by their male partners. And whilst it’s true that in a small number of circumstances some women attack their male partners, I strongly believe it’s due to emotional abuse in a great majority of cases. So yes, I do apply different criteria in this case, and I defend women down to the ground. So your parting shot really doesn’t affect me, I hope you don’t cry now.
Also, feel free to remove me from your friends list, I’ve been considering doing so for some time now, and your condescending comment has pretty much convinced me.
A friend of mine who I know from the queer community posted this response in reply to this mans original comment.
Men do oppress women on a large scale, both in this country and in others.
It is also emphatically true that men abuse women physically and sexually far more frequently than the reverse.
Sorry, you’re just plain wrong.
He responded again with:
Prove it. I was born when both the monarch and Prime Minister were female, grew up with a female speaker in the house of commons, spent most of my career working under women and had pretty much equal representation amongst senior staff (as in senior manager or higher) in nearly every organisation I’ve worked for. Where’s the oppression there exactly? Unless you make some vague argument about rates of pay, which is difficult to prove one way or another (and against government legislation nowadays), I really can’t see it.
I’m not saying domestic violence against women doesn’t happen, but I’m sticking to my guns – it’s just as prevalent against men, most of whom are much less likely to speak out about it, and have much less support. I’m not even going to mention alleged levels of spousal abuse amongst lesbians.
I can see this is a futile discussion with you. I don’t feel the need to continue with it.
So mote it to be that sister!
I seem to have a lot more argumentative energy than her today, so my response to his comment probably would have been:
Women are still grossly outnumbered by men in parliament. The era that you grew up in is irrelevant, we made very little progress in womens civil rights, and we also now have a male speaker in parliamnent. The area that you work in is also isolated in it’s equal representation of the genders. If you did you research, you’d find that in most professions, men outnumber women, mostly due to gender biased coscial conditioning regarding education, careers and promotion. Certainly my own personal anecdotal experiences point to your workplace being rare. The fact that men are less likely to report spousal abuse is really supporting my rant against patriachy, it is just as entrapping to men as it is to women. Society expects us to be all so trapped in our masculine and feminine roles. Men feel emasculated by reporting spousal abuse? That’s just as damning of our society as the female spousal abuse rate.
I think the reason you are not mentioning lesbian partner abuse is because you know you are desperately trying to prove a point and losing. Lesbian partner abuse does exist, but in a minimal number of cases.
According to my abuse research, the statistics on gender prevalence is as follows:
1. Male on female violence.
2. Male on male violence.
3. Female on male violence.
4. Female on female violence.
So SUCK IT.
I must disappear off somewhat hastily now as I need to pick up my son from school in 15 minutes. I am interested in hearing what others have to say about this exchange.